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THE COMPATIBILITY OF ISLAM, SECULARISM
& MODERNITY
( INTERVIEW
WITH ASGHAR ALI ENGINEER )
By Farish A Noor
The Institute for the Study of Islam in the
Modern World (ISIM) of Leiden, Netherlands, recently organised a three-day
workshop and seminar series around the theme of Muslim intellectuals and
the challenges facing the Muslim world of the present. Dr. Farish A Noor,
who took part in the workshop, managed to interview some of the
participants on matters related to their own concerns as well as those of
the seminar. As part of series of discussions, he also spoke to the Indian
activist and scholar Asghar Ali Engineer about the issue of secularism and
its relevance to contemporary Muslim society. Excerpts...
Noor: You are known in many parts of the Muslim world for a number of
things: your work on women's rights in Islam; your struggle against
religious intolerance and sectarianism, and your studies on secularism.
You have often spoken about the compatibility of Islam and modern values.
Can you tell us what you mean by that?
Engineer: What I mean is that there is no serious or insurmountable
difficulty between Islam, as deen or a way of life, with the modern world
we live in. If you look at modern political ideologies and modern
political morality today, you will find that many of the Quranic concepts
of reason, justice, wisdom and benevolence are there as well. So why is it
so difficult for us to deal with modern political culture and morality as
well? There is no reason why Muslims cannot and should not work with and
within the structures and institutions of modern politics. One can even
say that much of what we recognise as Islamic values and principles are
already there in the modern political culture around us.
Noor: What about those who argue that Islam cannot accommodate or tolerate
the 'secular' aspect of modernity? There are many Muslim thinkers in the
world today who argue that as Muslims we cannot and should not accept any
of the values which come under the general label of 'secular'.
Engineer: Most of these people do not understand what is meant by
secularism. Now if by that you mean a culture of hedonism, wastefulness
and vice, then of course we do not accept that. But you cannot reduce
secularism to simply that, and such forms of decadence can exist even in a
non-secular environment. The process of secular development in other parts
of the world has also broadened the worldviewof human beings, liberated
people from their prejudice and fears, and allowed for the creation of
more open and plural societies. Now we cannot say that all of that is bad
or un-Islamic, can we?
For me one of the most attractive and redeeming features of secularism is
the emphasis that it places on pluralism and equal rights for all: equal
rights for men and women, equal rights between the rich and the poor,
equal rights between all religious and cultural communities. So it is not
at all difficult for us to see and understand why so many communities in
the world today have opted to work within a secular system. This is even
more important if you happen to be in a religious or cultural minority
like the Muslims or Christians in India.
Now in India the Muslims constitute a minority of about 12 per cent. But
even so they happen to be an important minority as they tend to be
concentrated in certain areas and they tend to be found in certain fields
of work. As such they are an identifiable constituency and this makes them
very important to politicians and political parties. The political parties
in India now realise that the Muslims represent a bloc vote and a united
constituency that they need to have on their side. So many of the more
progressive parties and movements in India have begun to court the Muslim
vote.
Noor: And how do the Muslims in Indiareact to this? How should a religious
minority operate within such a political environment?
Engineer: The Indian Muslims realise that as a minority they need to think
strategically. Obviously they cannot support any kind of religious
movement or political party that works against them. So in the face of the
threat represented by extremist Hindu chauvinists, the Muslims - like the
Christians - now support secular political parties that promise to uphold
and defend the principles of pluralism and democracy. This was why Nehru
was so important and popular for us, even till today. You see, Nehru was a
great defender of the secular principles and values of constitutional
democracy. He never wanted India to develop to be a religious state where
only one religious community was dominant and able to impose its religious
or cultural hegemony on others.
For many Muslims and other religious minorities in India, he was their
great defender. What is more that episode in Indian history has taught us
the importance and value of secularism as a philosophy for living. Today
even the Indian Mullahs and Ulama have called on Muslims to work with
other secular parties and movements, in order to defend themselves against
dominant religious parties like the BJP. The Islamists in predominantly
Muslim countries need to learn from this; they need to understand how the
Other feels. Minorities always prefer to support and work with composite
movements that can absorb and accept them. This is why the Chinese in your
country, Malaysia, choose to work with the government.
As for your Islamists in Malaysia - they must understand that this is how
other minorities feel. It is natural for them to be scared and worried,
even if their fears are baseless. As a Muslim in India, I find myself
turning away from any Indian party that calls for Hindu dominance or
promotes Hindu chauvinism as its ideology. How do you think non-Muslims
feel when the situation is reversed and they confront Muslim groups that
talk the same kind of exclusive language? Its only natural for them to
react with fear. So we all need to be more understanding and
accommodating.
Noor: Its funny to hear you say that, for there are many Islamic movements
in the world today that are calling for a more active, even militant
approach of pushing the Muslim agenda worldwide.
Engineer: On a global scale we can see that we Muslims are a minority in
fact. We are not even the biggest religion in the world, so why do all
these movements in so many Muslim countries talk about converting the
world to Islam? This only makes non-Muslims fear Islam and fear Muslims
even more. This kind of talk is not even Islamic by its nature - it is
arrogant and self-defeating.
Noor: The other aspect of your work has been your sustained critique
against predominant practices in the Muslim world that are based on
traditions and customs which you argue are un-Islamic and
culturally-mediated. Can you elaborate a little further on this?
Engineer: Now we must remember that religion is a culturally mediated
phenomenon. By this we are referring to the practice of religion, as
opposed to the values or message of religion. This is true of Islam as it
is with every other religion in the world. All religions have a universal
message in them, but the universal message of Islam has been reinterpreted
and recontextualised over the centuries thanks to the mode of transmission
through which it is spread. In many cases, the cultural mediation of Islam
has led to the encroachment of new values, ideas, practices that are not
even Islamic, yet most of us think they are. For instance, take the
example of Muslim marriages these days. Now in many Islamic countries
Muslim women who get married are told that they need a 'Wali' or guardian
to marry them off. Sometimes this can be very complicated and these poor
women have to undergo all kinds of problems and difficulties when they
want to marry somebody.
But the holy Qur'an does not call for a Wali for a woman to marry. The
concept of the Wali is a Shariah concept, which makes it a culturally
mediated concept. It developed from a context and time when Muslims lived
in patriarchal societies where men dominated everything. But why do we
maintain such concepts now? Why do we still keep these practices alive?
Now the whole world thinks that Islam is a man-made religion which caters
for men's needs more than women's. But this is not true at all. Islam is
so democratic, so just, fair and equal in its treatment of these issues
that it allows women complete freedom to marry when they are mature enough
to do so. In Islam, women are free to contract their own marriages.
These kinds of contradictions create the impression that Islam is such a
rigid religion, while the truth is that Islam upholds the values of what
we call today democratic governance. The problem is that the culture of
Muslim societies still do not reflect this democratic spirit of Islam. The
cultural mediation of Islam, which led to the creation of an Arabised
Shariah and Islamic culture, has eroded and disfigured the fundamentally
democratic and egalitarian ethos of Islam.
Noor: How could we have reached such a state?
Engineer: Why is this so? I can only say that many people unfortunately do
not want to be free. People - and this includes Muslim people - want to be
led, they want to have some kind of mental refuge. But the danger is that
this opens the way for all kinds of authoritarian leaders, be they mullahs
or politicians, who then come to offer them miracle cures and empty
promises for their troubles. In the end they become victims of their
cultural practices.
It is because so much of our religion and culture has been abused and
disfigured thus by culturally mediated demands that we need to revive it
from within. Holding fast to the message of our religion, we need to work
towards a reform from within that will allow us to break from the cycle of
abuse and exploitation of religion for sectarian ends or self-interest.
One of the ways we can do this is by working within a modern secular
social and political culture which reminds us of our fundamental human
rights and obligations, and which protects our interests as individuals
and communities.
Noor: And where do Muslim intellectuals come in all this? What role are
they meant to play in contemporary Muslim societies?
Engineer: Muslim intellectuals, activists and academics today need to
realise that they have a great moral responsibility before them. They must
play an active role in defending the rights of Muslims as a collective,
but also the rights of individual Muslims within that collective. That is
why for me the real test has always been how these intellectuals address
the issue of women's rights in Islam. As long as they do not take this as
a serious cause - perhaps the most serious cause of all - then they cannot
be said to be committed intellectuals.
But many of our intellectuals are also not well versed in the Qur'an and
Hadith. There is the tendency to forget the need to base all our struggles
on the holy Qur'an and what is says. We cannot confront oppressive
governments or conservative Mullahs without knowing the Qur'an ourselves,
which is why I always tell these intellectuals that they need to
understand the laws and philosophy of their own religion first. Only then
can you call them 'Muslim' intellectuals in the true sense of the word.
Dr. Farish A Noor is a Malaysian political scientist and human rights
activist. He is currently writing a book on the Pan-Malaysian Islamic
Party, PAS.
May 2000
Source: http://www.dawoodi-bohras.com
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